In this episode of the Youth Mentor Podcast, we’re joined by Sabine McKenzie, an eating disorder recovery coach who brings a refreshing perspective to conversations around body image, food, and wellbeing. With eight years of supporting youth and adults through her business, Sabine shares her evolution from promoting body positivity to embracing what she calls “the grey space” – a gentler, more neutral approach to body image and health. 

We discuss:

• how youth mentors and adults can create supportive environments through neutral language, 
• the importance of moving beyond black-and-white thinking, 
• and practical ways to help young people navigate body image challenges. 

Sabine also opens up about her business journey and exciting plans to expand peer support in the eating disorder recovery space.

 

 

Subscribe on iTunes | Subscribe on Spotify | View all episodes

Sound bite

[00:00:00] sometimes when we’re so stuck in negativity, that the positivity can feel so far away or sometimes unattainable. So the idea around neutrality allows for both positive and negative feelings to exist, but that we’re not so deeply connected to either of those so that they can be a little bit, um, distance between how we are, what we’re feeling.

[00:00:21] Feeling or what we end up doing with our day.

Podcast introduction

[00:00:24] Hello and welcome to the youth mentor podcast. This is your short burst of inspiration tips and research about teens for parents, educators, and mentors. I’m your host, Amanda Rootsey, founder of teen personal development school Shine From Within and coach to incredible youth mentors all over the world. From psychological insights to really practical advice, this is your moment of inspiration, motivation, and a few laughs amidst the ever changing world of teens and tweens.

episode introduction

[00:00:51] Hello, in this episode of the Youth Mentor Podcast, we’re joined by Sabine McKenzie, an eating disorder recovery coach who brings a refreshing perspective to conversations around body image, food, and wellbeing. With eight years of experience supporting individuals through recovery, Sabine shares her evolution from promoting body positivity to embracing what she calls The Grey Space., a gentler, more neutral approach to body image and health and life.

[00:01:19] Really, we discussed how youth mentors and adults can create supportive environments through neutral language, the importance of moving beyond black and white thinking and practical ways to help young people navigate body image challenges. Sabine also opens up about her business journey and exciting plans to expand peer support in the eating disorder recovery space.

[00:01:40] I’m so excited to introduce you to Sabine. , yeah, as you’ll hear, she’s, , been a friend for a long time and, and was one of the first people to come through the youth mentor training. And it’s such a joy to get to see the work that she’s doing now and get to share this really important conversation with you.

[00:01:59] Um, yeah. Enjoy.

main interview

[00:02:00] yay. Welcome Sabine I’m so excited that you’re here with us on the Youth Mentor Podcast. Yay.

[00:02:10] Thank

[00:02:10] you so much for having me, Amanda. It’s always just so lovely to get to talk with you and to, yeah, be able to speak to your community. It’s always such a pleasure. So thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:19] You’re welcome.

[00:02:22] Um, I don’t know how long we’ve known each other. Maybe like eight years or something.

[00:02:28] Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[00:02:31] It’s been such a, such an amazing, time together too. Could you tell us a little bit about what you do in the world? The magical work you’re doing.

[00:02:42] Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, my job title, I guess, is an eating disorder recovery coach. So I work with people who are in recovery or are struggling with their relationship with food, exercise or body image. And really, I guess, Um, relationships, from the lived experience, effective help them in the here and now to change their behaviors, establish their goals, and get to where they want to be.

[00:03:11] Whatever that kind of means for them or however that looks like for them. So, yeah, I guess that’s that’s the, the. Job title that I have, but I guess there’s so much that encompasses that I worked for myself. So the running the business side of things is, has always been very interesting over the eight years that we’ve known each other already.

[00:03:32] Um, and over that time as well, just, , being able to talk at schools or talk at workshops and whether that’s with youth or with adults, really spreading a message of awareness. For how we speak about foods and our bodies and how we can use more neutral language to prevent but also help for the early intervention of eating disorders is, is a real big passion of mine as well.

[00:03:58] I learned so much just watching you, you on Instagram.

[00:04:05] Oh, thank you. I always duck in and out of that social media stuff, but I do, I do really love still just sharing the things as they pop up, um, about. Yeah, I guess just challenging so much of what we just see day to day in on TV or on me or on social media, but from other people and just, I guess, just challenge some of the norms that that we’re faced with all the time, just to get people to be a little bit more curious about the messages that we are receiving.

[00:04:35] Um, taking on and, how that then impacts how we feel about ourselves and the behavior that we engage in.

[00:04:42] \Hmm. Yeah. I love that. What, ,what are some things that we can do as adults that might have young people around us or even children, you know, even younger around us to, um, instill that message of.

[00:04:56] Yeah. I don’t even know, would you go for positive body image or is it more just around the neutral language and making sure that when we’re cultivating, um, okay habits? Yeah. What, what should we do?

[00:05:08] Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, I think that it’s, it’s interesting. I definitely, when I started, um, this work and even in my own journey, I definitely leaned more towards, , self love and, um, body positivity and, and really having that positive swing to things.

[00:05:23] And I think as I’ve progressed and as I’ve learned more and as I’ve listened to more people’s stories and gone through more experiences myself, I definitely now. And much more resonate with the language around neutrality. So body neutrality and food neutrality. And that’s not to say that, um, Aiming for self love or cultivating self love or body positivity is a bad thing, not at all.

[00:05:44] But I just think that sometimes when we’re so stuck in negativity, that the positivity can feel so far away or sometimes unattainable. So the idea around neutrality allows for both positive and negative feelings to exist, but that we’re not so deeply connected to either of those so that they can be a little bit, um, distance between how we are, what we’re feeling.

[00:06:06] Feeling or what we end up doing with our day. So as an example, like if I woke up today and wasn’t feeling great in my body image or in my body, um, that could just exist without it then impacting how I showed up for this conversation or how I show up for my work. Whereas if I was really attached to trying to cultivate a body image.

[00:06:26] Positive body image, perhaps I would then feel really quite negative and quite upset at the fact that I was experiencing these negative emotions and thoughts and feelings about my body. So I think when we’re talking about, , for, for adults or for people who work with young people as well, I think trying to be more neutral and, and often just in the, in the absent absence of the comments that we make about bodies or about.

[00:06:55] Um, food choices or about, um, yeah, um, size or shape. I think that is just so, so important that we’re actually having an absence of, , negative or positive things, um, that, , yeah, how, how people are presenting themselves, I guess.

[00:07:11] I just felt my shoulders like drop and relax as you talked about that. I’m like, Oh, wow.

[00:07:18] I don’t have to aim for this elusive a hundred percent.

[00:07:22] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that that is, , that is how it’s such a beautiful way to, to explain it. Cause I think that is how I’ve felt in . In discovering neutrality as, as a way to even explain it as a concept. I think it was a big sigh of relief to be like, Oh, you know, I’m not trying to help people to not feel negative about their bodies because that’s kind of, unfortunately, you know, like not really unfortunate at all.

[00:07:57] Like negative emotions are just emotions that like it’s the, it’s the judgment on them that kind of makes them negative, but they’re all allowed to exist. And so I think that just by allowing space to say, it’s not great to feel. Negative all the time about certain things and there’s definitely, um, you know, steps and support that we can get to not feel that way, but that in aiming, yeah, in aiming for positivity and that, that kind of feeds back into that perfectionism and that those high expectations that we place on ourselves.

[00:08:27] So then when we don’t feel that, as you say, then we feel like failure or we feel like giving up or feel like, Oh, what’s the point. So, yeah, rather finding that, that middle ground.

[00:08:36] The Grey Space..

[00:08:39] I know. Honestly, it just comes up, I can’t help it.

[00:08:46] Do you find, um, I want to talk more about The Grey Space.. I want to talk more about the journey of your business to getting to this point as well. But, um, Yeah. While we’re talking about this too, do you find that just by shifting that language when you’re starting to work with a new client or talking to, to young people or adults who are, who are going through, who are already at that eating disorder stage or that disordered eating point, do you find that shifting that language really supports them so that things don’t progress too much? Like do, do they find that, does it bring an awareness and some acceptance for themselves to then, um, yeah, work on what it is that they’re, that they’re there to work on?

[00:09:25] Absolutely. Yeah. Um, it’s a lot easier said than done though. It’s, it’s a very, you know, I think it does, it takes, It’s quite a bit of unlearning what more so than the new learning.

[00:09:36] I mean, I don’t know if one or the other, do they have to come together probably, but yeah, I think I’m learning a lot of those core beliefs and messages that we pick up from a very young age. , And taking on new information, being very mindful of what messages we are choosing to surround ourselves with both in person and, and online and through books and podcasts and all of those types of things. So I absolutely think it definitely helps, but it’s. Um, it can be quite hard to do.

[00:10:08] Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And do you recommend like not listening to the wellness and fitness and health kind of podcasts and following the, the, , the really fun, positive, well, like well being influences? Like, does it, does it help a lot of the time for them to just cut all of that out and just get back to feeling and how they’re feeling in the moment?

[00:10:31] Yeah. Absolutely. It can do. But then I think there’s also times where those things can be helpful as well. Like, again, it’s not, it’s not so black and white. It’s not so clear, which again can be really hard to facilitate. But that’s why I’m just, I’m so passionate. Why I feel so flow when I’m working one on one with people rather than delivering groups or workshops or speaking to a large group, which I’ve kind of done a little bit of all those things.

[00:10:56] But for me, when I’m able to be with someone one on one, I can, I can personalize what I’m saying based on what they’re bringing to that session in that moment and what’s going on from for them and in all the context that surrounds that wonderful human being that I’m able to, to share that space with.

[00:11:14] So it’s, it’s really hard to, yeah, to say more. Generically, like don’t follow these people or do follow these people and while those things can still be really can be helpful and still needed to, to be able to get support because one on one support isn’t accessible for everyone. So I think we do still need to be able to have accessible means of suggestions and and helpful topics.

[00:11:39] But I think that, yeah, it’s again, this interesting space where I think sometimes when people are working on their body image and they are caught in quite a negative spiral, there can be space where seeing people who are specifically focused on body positivity. And that might mean like looking, sharing photos of themselves, um, in what might language people might use, like unflattering positions or like not so, .

[00:12:05] Um, pose or something like that, that can be really helpful for someone to see. , but equally, I think that there’s a level of that still continues to focus on our bodies and that still kind of perpetuates this message of, of. That our bodies are really important. And it’s not that I’m trying to say that they’re not, our bodies are freaking amazing, but the way that our body looks kind of irrelevant to the human being that we are.

[00:12:33] And the magic that, you know, we’re able to share, share with the world and all our feelings and emotions and relationships and connections are not based on, on how we look. So I feel like there’s that added level then of, of body neutrality, again, being able to just. remind ourselves that aesthetics and appearance isn’t the most important thing.

[00:12:55] So yeah, it’s kind of like, I see it sometimes as a bit of a stage process where when we’re in such a negative head space, it can be really useful to follow body positive influences or people who, who say they have a health relationship with food and exercise. Then maybe we need to challenge those things that we’re looking at and, and the messages that they’re spreading to them.

[00:13:18] Again, kind of get to that bottom line of like, I’m enough, regardless of, of how I look.

[00:13:22] Wow. Yeah, that brings us back around to that absence of let’s just not really put so much focus on this, right. Let’s not talk so much about the way our bodies look and how our hair is that day and all of the things that, that are such a big part of society at the moment.

[00:13:40] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, uh, again, it’s, it’s. Like, and not having to be like, you can’t ever compliment someone on their outfit or that they’re, they’re looking glowing or that they’re looking really happy or that their head does look really nice. You know, I don’t, again, doesn’t mean we can’t say any of those things all the time, but I do know that, um, so often when we do see people for, , for the first time, when we’re catching up with them after a little while, you know, so often it’s, it’s.

[00:14:10] It’s more than just I guess those surface level things like especially the comments on, on weight, you know, like, Oh, you’ve, you’ve lost weight or you’re looking so you’re looking so good because of, that. I think that is the, that is what we need to start to kind of remove and it’s kind of an unnecessary, unnecessary commentary.

[00:14:27] Um, the, you know. To kind of associate because again, we have, we have no idea what that person’s going through or what’s going on for them or why their body might be taking up the space that it’s taking up right now. And so to continue to continue making those kind of comments, I think solidifies this idea of weight being related to health or worthiness or happiness.

[00:14:52] Do you find, um, do you find the media play a big role in this? I feel like I’ve seen you over the years pull out like headlines and they’re always, um, I’d love seeing the way that you reword them. Could you maybe give us an example of that?

[00:15:06] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think one comes to mind. I haven’t done one in a while, which maybe means that, I mean, I don’t read a lot of music anymore, so maybe that’s that, but also maybe they’re not doing it so much anymore, hopefully.

[00:15:17] But it’s usually like the. I think there was one that was like Rebel Wilson with her age, and then, you know, , strutting, , like looks fabulous after weight loss or something like, something like that, that has actually got nothing to do with her getting an ice cream or her promoting her movie or her book or whatever it might be.

[00:15:36] And I’m just, I think, I don’t know why I pulled Rebel Wilson. I think that that’s one that I’ve done, which came to mind. And so, yeah, absolutely. The media having headlines that focus on especially women, often women’s bodies, , and making that, again, the, the, Um, what do we want to call it? Like part of the transaction almost like the, the, the value that this human being is bringing into this world is again, reaffirmed as her looks.

[00:16:07] Yeah. That’s number one. And secondary is, Oh, she’s got a great new movie.

[00:16:11] Exactly. Yeah. What she’s actually doing.

[00:16:13] Yeah. Oh, , um, how did the, teenagers in particular, how do they respond when, when they start to unlearn some of this stuff, like, are they, yeah, what, what comes up?

[00:16:25] Teenagers are amazing.

[00:16:28] They are, they are, they’re honestly ahead of the curve with this, with this stuff. And I think that’s a, that’s a great sign as well for, I think the, the way that conversations have started to shift as well. Um, They are really open, open to, and curious to these things, um, these things, these concepts, these topics, and I, ultimately, I think that the struggle comes down to, again, Years and acceptance with peers.

[00:17:05] So, so less so necessarily about, , media or specific like influences, but, but more so that desire to fit in or necessarily fit in, but I guess be called out if for some reason, someone thinks that something that they’re doing or brand that they’re wearing or whatever, isn’t, isn’t acceptable for whatever. Society, I guess, teams in that moment. So I think that that is more that I see being really hard. And again, that’s such a normal part of development that that stage in our lives, right? Like we’re driven by connecting with our peers and our friends. At that, at that stage of our lives. And so I think, again, if we’re talking about kind of tools or, or holding that space at that moment for people who might be supporting teenagers, it’s normalizing it, but also recognizing when it’s not normal anymore, or when behaviors are starting to impact, um, mental wellbeing and mental health. And I guess that’s then. When I usually get to speak to them and, and see them.

[00:18:13] Yeah. Yeah. So do you, is the, the most common stage that you’re coming in at is kind of that preventative space or just on the verge of something like that things have been noticed, but they don’t necessarily have been diagnosed with an eating disorder or do you get a bit of both or do you get people at the other end?

[00:18:30] Bit of both. Yeah. A bit of both. And again, like I, I don’t just work with youth anymore. So my age. group, I guess, that I work with is from 14 and up. But I would say that when we’re speaking about 14 to 17 year olds, um, it really, it actually really varies of what stage I see them at. Um, it can be at those early stages.

[00:18:55] It can be once I’ve got a diagnosis and once I’ve got a team of support as well. And, um, the parent usually is looking just as an added bit of something. , That is a little bit more, yeah, I guess connected to the lived experience and hopefulness that things can get better. Um, and then also a little bit later down the track as well, maybe someone’s been struggling for, for a little while, um, or maybe they don’t, don’t have a team, , and haven’t even got that language to, to identify. their struggles with

[00:19:29] ,

[00:19:30] you would be so supportive and nurturing and amazing and hopeful and fun to get to hang with while going through such awful things, navigating such challenges.

[00:19:40] Thank you. And yeah, I, I just, I always just feel so So grateful to be able to connect to these incredible humans that, yeah, I get to support.

[00:19:49] I, I always just feel as much as I hate that I’m having to be in their lives and I wish that my job title didn’t exist. I would absolutely love to be out of work, but the, yeah, the gratitude that I feel for paths crossing and, um, the, the insight that I get into, um, these incredible humans lives is just so, so special.

[00:20:11] I don’t ever take for granted. , Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty special.

[00:20:15] I can imagine having that trust from them and from the parent to, to, to do this work. Yeah.

[00:20:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s huge.

[00:20:25] Um, for those that do. A predominantly working group environments, maybe they’re running like a weekly circle with, with young people or something like that, where they’ve kind of got a group of people that have a group of young people that have a bit of a rapport with each other.

[00:20:42] Um, do you see value in them opening up these discussions and rather than teaching about what positive body image looks like or teaching tools or things more so? Uh, opening the conversation, like how, how are you feeling about things or what are you seeing in the world around you at the moment?

[00:21:00] Um, what do you think about body neutrality? Like, yeah, what do you, what do you think?

[00:21:06] Yeah, absolutely. I think opening the conversation up is, is It’s beautiful. It’s really great always to kind of be responsive to what the group brings up or what they struggle points are rather than leading with what we believe their struggles to be what we believe there to be going on for them.

[00:21:26] And that’s something that I think is, I’ve always been really wary of as well and why when I was delivering talks to groups. To schools, the age group that I was delivering these talks, that was really important to me because I, um, I guess never want to be putting ideas into people’s heads, right. Or never want to be the bringing a concept forward that someone has, you know, what do you mean I’m meant to be, I have to feel positive about my body.

[00:21:52] Like, does that mean that I’m normally feel negative about my body? Like, right. Like if they haven’t even considered that to, to be, to be a thing, then that delivery is, is really important. So I think the more that we can, uh, Open ended questions and allow them to, to lead the conversations and then ask, come in with at that appropriate level.

[00:22:15] I think that the better. And I, and I kind of see that already, like with my, so they’re almost five, my, my twin girls in terms of, um, we, I’m not like, I don’t, I don’t deliver positive body image messages to them or I’ve never, I’ve never done that. I don’t know if I’ve done that right. Like, I don’t say you have to love your body.

[00:22:34] You have to appreciate your body. But again, because there’s an absence of negative or positive, positive talk, they’re not, they don’t, they don’t really comment on their bodies. I don’t comment on their bodies. I don’t comment on our bodies. I’ve never heard them speak badly about us. And I’m sure it’s still going to come.

[00:22:51] I totally know that it’s still ahead for me. But I think that that in itself, knowing that for other. Parents, there is, you know, there is lots of cases where four or five year olds already use language and say things. Like speaking negatively about their body. And again, I’m not trying to say that’s a reflection of parenting at all.

[00:23:12] Not at all. , but that these messages are everywhere. And, and, uh, T the TV shows that I watched in the different books that I read and the care that they get and the messages that I receive about food. There’s things that they’ve brought up about food that I’m like, Oh my gosh, where did you learn that from?

[00:23:27] Where, where does that come from? And, and that just, that kind of just happens. So, um, Yeah. Yeah. I think being, sorry, I went off on a little bit of a tangent there, but I, I think, yeah, it just kind of has shown to me again, that importance of, um, being able to, when they bring it up, being able to steer them in a different way or be asked some questions of, Oh, that’s really, that’s really interesting that you said that this food is healthy and this food isn’t unhealthy.

[00:23:51] Like what, like, why do you, why do you think that rather than saying, no, all food is healthy or all food has a, all food has a place, um, putting my things on and getting, getting to be curious about what they actually think about it.

[00:24:03] Yeah. I love that. It’s not a tangent at all. I think there’ll be a lot of listeners with kids that age too, or with, with, with children at home.

[00:24:12] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, tell us about the, The Grey Space., like you’ve got these cool caps that you’ve been bringing out and, um, I’ve, I’ve heard you talk, um, a bit about this on, , um, podcasts as well. Yeah. Yeah. Could you share I mean, I feel like we’ve been talking about it anyway, but is there more that you would share about, about The Grey Space. In particular?

[00:24:36] I think I’ve been like, yeah, in anticipation, like, obviously I was like the podcast and I’ll have conversations. I still actually don’t know how to exactly explain it like technically or, actually really define it. But I think I probably, as you’ve heard me talk, and even as it came up, like at the start, I I think so much of, my, uh, belief systems now when it comes to health and well being and body image just is so much in The Grey Space..

[00:25:04] Like I’m really, um, and I think it’s the opposing, , the opposing concepts of like this all or nothing mentality and black and white thinking that is often kind of, um, Something that like can be something that people with eating disorders experience and can be a bit of like temperament. So obviously without needing to sort of, we can have lean into that kind of mentality, but then the eating disorder kind of continues to take that to more of an extreme.

[00:25:34] So there’s less logic being able to be brought in in terms of, no, this is, this is the wrong decision, or this is the right decision. It’s very quiet. Quite black and white. And so in having these conversations with, with clients and reflecting back on my own experience as well of this perfectionism and black and white thinking all or nothing mentality, I realized that what I was, what I was trying to, where I was trying to get people was to be a bit more flexible and to be a bit more self compassionate with themselves and, and recognize that maybe in the, in that moment of making that decision, Whether it’s like a recovery focused decision or listening to the eating disorder decision or without an eating disorder, just like, , is this healthy for me?

[00:26:14] Or is this maybe not so great for me in this moment that maybe both of those things can be true, depending on how we look at it and depending on what what lens we’re looking at it at. And that maybe it’s not so much about every single decision, but the broader context of, who we’re surrounding ourselves with the messages that we’re engaging in.

[00:26:32] And, and how we are. Behaving day to day that actually has more of an impact. So, as I said. Don’t know how to explain it succinctly, but I feel like it was just this concept that I kept getting people to. And I then you, I started to use this language. Like what, like what, where is The Grey Space.? Like, can we, like, can we think more about The Grey Space.?

[00:26:53] And so then I decided to put it on a cap because I didn’t really like my caps and wearing caps at the moment. And I just think they’re really cute. Um, and I think that they’re really important part of, I guess fighting back against a bit of diet culture as well and, and understanding that, that, you know, that we, we don’t necessarily, um, have to be so, yeah, black and white in, in the decisions that we’re making about our health and wellbeing.

[00:27:18] I love that. It’s also what I’m hearing from you is it’s also nuanced. It’s so personalized and, um, yeah, the more that we can get away from that, that black and white thinking the better. I love it. Yeah. So the goal isn’t to get to perfection. Yeah, absolutely. Nuanced is the trick work.

[00:27:36] No, yeah, no, it’s definitely not.

[00:27:39] Yeah. Thank goodness. Absolutely not. I know. If you’re, um, yeah. And I think, cause I mean, I’m thinking back to like starting this journey of, of being interested in this work and wanting to like spread this message of like self love and body positivity back in the day, eight years ago, like it all started with that, this, this knowing of.

[00:28:04] With my own experiencing, having to really recognize that I was enough that in every single moment that, that I, was enough and, and had that worthiness at the time beyond my weight or beyond my image, but also as the years have gone along, like beyond my job title or beyond my relationships or beyond my role as a mother.

[00:28:23] And so I think that The Grey Space. Is almost that, that extension, but at the same time. Really at its core , is this continuation of like, , you are enough, like regardless of the struggles that you’re in in this, in this moment that you, , you are making the best decisions and doing the best that you can right now with what you’ve got.

[00:28:44] And I just think we just need a little bit more of that for ourselves because we’re often so good at giving it to the loved ones around us, but not so good at just showing that for ourselves as well. So I hope that The Grey Space. Can be a little bit of a reminder of that as well.

[00:28:57] Oh, thank you for that gift for us right now, too.

[00:29:03] Welcome.

[00:29:06] Um, I love hearing the way that it started too. You know, I think, , starting your own business is such a, uh, a big. Personal journey, isn’t it? And there’s so many, so much that you have to grow through and stretch through and then you can get to a point where you realize what you were saying at the start or what got you into it in the beginning actually doesn’t resonate so much anymore.

[00:29:26] So how does that shift? Like, yeah, could you tell us a little bit more about that, um, about that journey?

[00:29:33] Oh, it’s an ongoing journey. I think it’s just one of those things that again, like the, the more, the further along you get, the more you realize you don’t know, but the more that you realize that no one knows.

[00:29:52] Like we’re all just doing, doing our best. So, , I think when it relates to, to that journey, um, I just, I’m, I look back and I’m just always so grateful that I started. I’m just so grateful that I kind of was willing to, to try and to not know exactly what that was going to look like. And I had to really, I think probably in the last couple of years, Remind myself of that and kind of anchor back into that when self doubt starts to creep back in to get an imposter syndrome starts to creep back in, you lose a little bit of that naivety.

[00:30:25] I think that you have at the start of your journey. And I really had to remind myself that it’s, it’s okay that I don’t know what it’s going to look like, or I’m not sure if this is going to work or, um, not being afraid to try a different ways of doing things again, because that’s how I kind of was able to get to this point from know where I started.

[00:30:46] And the youth mentor training was such a pivotal part of that for me, because I had this grand idea of spreading these messages or wanting to have this like positive influence and do it in a way that was responsible and felt like I could, well not cause harm really, like not cause harm and utilize my skill and hone my skills in a way that would be supportive.

[00:31:13] And the youth mentor training a hundred percent enabled me. To do that. , and start like at back, there was core confidence that businesses was back then. Um, and so it’s just looking back and being so grateful of taking those leaps and. Not being afraid to surround myself or ask questions to people who, like, seem maybe like out of reach in a way or seem almost like there’s like a, like a different power dynamic, but you just learn that people are so willing to help and to, to give.

[00:31:45] And if they’re not, they’ll let you know. And that’s okay as well. Yeah. I don’t even remember what the question was now, I’m sorry.

[00:31:52] Yeah, it was about the journey and it’s such , um, I love hearing that because I think we can get so caught our head and it, and it, , reminds me of everything you’ve been sharing this whole episode of the black and white thinking and the reaching for perfection that we can keep tweaking things in our mind or keep kind of planning these things and spend years dreaming and tweaking and dreaming some more, but until you actually.

[00:32:18] Put something out there and, and take the pressure off that it has to be perfect and get in front of some young people, um, and get to get that feedback from them. You know, you can’t get to the next stage then, like you have to have to start with something, don’t you?

[00:32:32] Exactly. Yeah. A hundred percent. And it actually, it relates so closely to the, to the work that I do in recovery as well.

[00:32:39] Like it’s, we can know everything about recovery and, you know, and. Surround ourselves with all these amazing resources, but, but often it’s not about knowing more. It’s just about actually doing the thing that feels really uncomfortable to do. And, and that is what enables us to then, so then make those changes.

[00:32:54] And so there’s these beautiful synergies of, I guess, the experiences that I had in, in recovery and being able to, to take that action to then also now applying that , to business in, in a way and, and progression of development with that grace based lens.

[00:33:08] I love that. Yay. More Grey Space.

[00:33:12] No more. I honestly, I can’t help it.

[00:33:16] It’s just, it’s just so, yeah.

[00:33:20] Like, let’s toss the rose coloured glasses. We’re getting grey ones. Yeah. It’s way better. We’re getting grey glasses. Softer!

[00:33:27] But then I’m like, I’m like, I don’t want people to think that it’s like, means that your life is grey, because like, absolutely not. It’s like, not that at all, you know?

[00:33:36] Okay, I can keep the, I can keep the heart shaped glasses. Yeah, please, yeah, yeah.

[00:33:43] Um, how can people find you, Sabine?

[00:33:45] Website is www.worthbeyond.com.Au.

[00:33:51] me laughing because I feel like you just hesitated. Like, I have no idea where they can find me. .

[00:33:58] Yeah. Literally that’s, that’s actually what I, where can you find me? So, yeah, so my website is one place. , and then I, yeah, I guess Instagram, Sabine.Mckenzie, M C K E N Z I E, , is where, yeah, I share more stuff that isn’t just specific, like recovery related, I guess, leaning more into just life and, um, being a business owner, being a mum, um, I guess with the undercurrent of The Grey Space. And body neutrality and, all of the stuff that I’m, I’m really passionate about.

[00:34:33] Amazing. And that website, because I laughed and cut you off. Is it worthbeyond.com.au?

[00:34:39] It is. Yeah. worthbeyond.com.au. And what is the next 12 months kind of look like for you?

[00:34:49] Yes, this is a good one because yeah, yeah, because I think that, um, for the last couple of years, probably about two years ago, I kind of got to a place, um, where I’d been striving to be for so long and I was like, okay, like, it’s okay just to sit here. Like stop trying to think of what, what’s next and what are you going to, yeah, no, I’m good.

[00:35:09] What else is coming up? Just actually allow yourself to be in this space. And I did that, which was really cool, but now I definitely feel ready to be like, okay, let’s like, keep challenging. Let’s keep growing. Like what, what else, where else? And I think to me, I get to work, as I said before, with these wonderful, wonderful humans and who have these incredible experiences that are so diverse to my own lived experience.

[00:35:34] And I really want to be able to start harnessing that. So, creating, like, a Lamingworth Beyond, I guess, to be. Uh, facilitator for peer support and, utilizing other peers experiences to be able to connect with people who are a few steps behind in their journey or where they’re at to just continue on that message of decreasing the isolation in recovery and increasing the hopefulness of recovery as well.

[00:36:03] That, that is our core message and, and value. And so if I can harness that, the beautiful power and generosity of, of the community in this kind of way, I think that would be really, really cool, but I have no idea what that’s going to look like or how that’s going to go, but that’s okay.

[00:36:22] Yeah. Totally. Oh, that sounds amazing. What a beautiful next evolution of your, of your work and expansion. Wow. Thank you. Yeah. I’m excited. I’m excited. Is there anything else you feel like sharing with us today?

[00:36:39] No, I, I think that, I think just my, , just on that, I think that was the first time that I’ve said that out loud and actually shared that.

[00:36:47] And I think that that’s just another sign of, like, , , don’t be afraid to put things out there despite not knowing. Like I could change my mind next week and be like, Oh, actually, no, I don’t want to do that. And it doesn’t matter. I can actually, it actually doesn’t matter that. But I think just that idea of just, just take that next step, just start.

[00:37:08] Just if there’s something that is, within you that you’re curious about or want to, , want to, want to do, then don’t be afraid to say it out loud to someone.

[00:37:18] Thank you for sharing that. I feel like the only other time I’ve heard people speak about that is with this real like, you’ve got to put it out into the universe to manifest it. And unless, and you’ve got to like, say it out loud so that everyone keeps you accountable. And it makes me feel like, but if I say something, I will totally change my mind in a week’s time.

[00:37:36] And then I’m going to look like a plague and I shouldn’t do it and blah, blah, blah. And I get in my head. And so again, being The Grey Space. With how you share things with the world .

[00:37:46] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it’s, and sometimes it’s not meant to be, it’s not meant to come out the way that you expected.

[00:37:51] Like Yeah. Even with the, The Grey Space. Caps, like, it’s been something that I’ve been wanting to do something of, like in terms of having some physical, um, connection or something that the, like the community can, can have. It, you know, I had lots of different ideas of, of what that could be or what, and I did a little design of a little human and like, none of those things are meant to be.

[00:38:16] And that’s why it kind of gotten to this point now. And, and I don’t know if it will always be the little great big smiley face that it is right now, but that is something and that feels good. So yeah, it doesn’t have to be this massive, proclamation and, and thing that we then have to stick to and hold ourselves to it’s more just that, that sharing it and actually saying it out loud just allows you to be like, Oh, how does that feel?

[00:38:40] How does that sit? What could that maybe? What could that maybe look like today or tomorrow or next week?

[00:38:47] It’s like holding it lightly or yeah, being a bit playful with things rather than so rah rah. Yeah.

[00:38:55] Yeah. Rather than so. Black and white. Yes. Some might say.

[00:38:58] Some might. Sabine might.

[00:39:03] Maybe she would.

[00:39:04] Oh, thank you so much for sharing your, um, your Grey Space concept with us.

[00:39:12] I can see how it could apply to, , everything in life, really. Um, I’m going to go through my day now considering, , considering, yeah, keeping that kind of in mind, I think, and thinking about Seeing the world with that lens and my own thoughts with that lens. Yeah.

[00:39:27] Yeah. You’re so welcome. Thank you so much.

[00:39:30] As I said at the start of the opportunity and all that you do in the world as well, Amanda, I’m so appreciative of, of it all.

[00:39:37] All right. Thanks.

outro

[00:39:40] What a gift to hear Sabine’s wisdom and experience around supporting young people with such sensitivity and nuance. Oh, I just love her. , please let me know if you enjoyed this episode, if you’ve got any feedback on notes or your own ideas around this, um, you can always reach out to Sabine, , or myself on, Instagram.

[00:40:02] Yeah. And I’ll pop some links below and on some of the podcasting platforms, you can, you can directly comment or send a note right , in the platform. So feel welcome to do that as well. And please do like and subscribe and all the things so that we can continue to share important conversations like this with anyone who has young people in their world.

[00:40:21] Thank you so much for tuning in and I can’t wait to be with you in the next episode.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Connect with Sabine on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/sabine.mckenzie/
• Connect with her business Worth Beyond on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/worthbeyond__/
• View her website here https://www.worthbeyond.com.au/
• Connect with Shine from Within on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/shinefromwithinhq/

• Jump on a 15min call with me to talk about your own dreams of starting or growing your youth business at https://shinefromwithin.pages.ontraport.net/letschat
• Curious about starting your own program or business to support youth in 2025? Check out our free video training: How to Start and Grow your Youth Mentor Business here.

Subscribe on iTunes  |  Find on Spotify | View All